Episode 44: Should We Just "Let Go and Let God"?

In this episode, we explore what it really means to grow as a follower of Jesus. Is the Christian life simply about “letting go and letting God,” or does Scripture call believers to something more active? Together, we unpack the biblical meaning of sanctification and explore the balance between God’s transforming work in us and our call to pursue obedience, holiness, and spiritual growth.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Social Podcast, where we help young adults go deeper in their faith by exploring topics relevant to you. Separate from our weekly sermon series, this podcast addresses questions that young adults are seeking answers to. With that in mind, let's get started with today's episode of the Social Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Yo, what is up, everybody? Welcome back to the Social Podcast. This is Sammy Arizaga on the mic, and in the studio today we got Nathan Alvey. How are we doing? Yes, sir. And who else do we have in here with us?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Caitlin Love.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

What up? Well, guys, it's been a while since uh you've gotten to hear from us. We've been fish finishing up school, doing finals, uh young adult conference. It got really busy this past month, but we're glad to be back with you guys um on the podcast. I know we've all I know you guys have probably missed all our voices, especially uh Nathan's voice, because it's just so soothing, you know? I don't think that's true. No, but anyways, we are for real. We're happy to be back and just you know, just pour some wisdom, also just joke around and just have a good time. Um, but anyways, we have our question of the week. Caitlin, do you want to get us started with that question of the or question of the podcast, really? So yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Okay, so today's question. Are you a night owl or an early bird?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

I'm gonna take this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Okay, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

I have a bit of a nuanced answer because of course you do. Well, okay, here's the deal. It's changed recently, right? Like growing up and in college, I would have said that I was more of a night owl. Like, I s I I I gave all my classes uh to a later portion of the day. Like I wouldn't start class till like noon, so that I could sleep till like 10 or 11, be up till like midnight to two. Um, but since starting work and starting school and like not no longer having the luxury of a college schedule, I am definitely like here's the deal though, I'm not an early bird because like I'm not awake and I'm not my best self, but I definitely feel better when I get up, get going, have my cup of coffee, do my quiet time. Like, if I try to wait till the end of the day to do all that, I'm gonna be a zombie. So I'm an early bird, but not by preference.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yeah. I would say, and Nathan, you can probably affirm this too, just since we used to be roommates for a bit, I'm very much a night owl, and I'm trying to change my ways. How I've I've not succeeded in doing so yet. I'm still going to bed at like midnight or anywhere between midnight and one. I just I think a lot of it is just I love hanging out with people. Yep. And it's hard for me to say no and be like, okay, I need to go to bed. I'm like, no, I'm hanging out with people. This is how I get my energy. And then I wake up in the morning and I'm like a zombie. I'm like, why am I so tired? And it's like, well, you've been staying up late, you know? Yep. And so, but yeah, so I'm very much a night owl. A lot of it's just yeah, college, you know, that's what we always did. Uh going to a small town uh for college. We didn't have much to do, and so we always had our own little adventures and stuff. And so I don't do that as much in Northwest Arkansas. Everyone's got jobs and is going to bed now early, and so I'm like, okay, I just need to go to bed. And so that is, I'm very much a night owl trying to learn how to be an early bird. And so, Nathan, if you got any tips, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

I just can't do without sleep. That's my only tip. No, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

What about you? I am definitely an early bird. Now, I'm the same as you, Nathan. I used to be night owl all throughout college, but once I graduated, I'm now an early bird. I like to get up, I like to go to the gym, but I'm like, I mean, it's like 4.55. Oh. 5.15 is like when I'm waking up. That's very good. But those are my like working hours. It's like the morning, that's when my mind is is on. Now at nighttime, same. I'm like, uh-uh. Not going to the gym and not gonna read anything because I'm fried by the end of the day. But for sure, for sure, an early bird.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Yeah. Nobody's up in the morning, too. So like you don't have to expect getting texts or anything. You can definitely get your best work done.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

There's no traffic on the roads. It's really nice.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

I I wouldn't know this because I'm not up that early.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

We're still on the journey of figuring out how to get through that.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

It's an unexperienced part of life for Sammy. Don't worry, you'll get there. You'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Speaking of being on a journey, we are talking today about sanctification. And more specifically, like, what is our role in it? And so there's a tendency to say, like, oh, just let go and let God. And like, He'll do all the work. And once we profess our faith in Jesus, but the Bible tells us that we actually have an active role in growing to look more like Jesus. Yeah. So, Nathan, you want to give us just like a quick um, just kind of 101 on justification, sanctification, glorification, as those are very churchy words that we're like, what does that even mean? Break it down.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Yeah, so I think it's helpful to describe these. Uh, we went over a social series uh actually on these three um a few weeks ago, and we called it uh the three tense, or what it's called is the three tenses of salvation. So you've got a past tense, a present uh tense, and then a future tense. So we'll start with justification. And this is what most people think when they think of salvation. This is what people think you put your faith in Jesus and you are saved from your sin. So the word justification is actually a legal term, which really just comes to mean that you are right in the eyes of God, that you're innocent, right? So if you go stand before a judge and he pronounces you innocent, you are justified. And so when we place our faith in Jesus, our sins are taken away, we are justified in the eyes of God. But then we move to sanctification, and this is where we're going to be spending most of our time today. And I think it's really healthy uh just for practical walking out your faith to separate these two and to have a good working definition. But sanctification really is just for the rest of your life, the Holy Spirit is going to be working inside of you to produce godliness so that you grow into the holiness of Jesus. And so this looks like coming to love the things that God loves, coming to disapprove of the things that God disapproves. And really, more and more, day after day, year after year, as you follow Jesus, you're gonna look more like Jesus. And then glorification is simply another uh instantaneous event where when you die, you will be glorified, or to say it in another way, you will be perfected uh in the presence of God. And so all believers now understand this tension of I know that I'm saved, but I still, I still sin, I still mess up. I don't do the things I want to do, and the things I want to do, I do not do, is what Paul says in Romans 7. And this is that tension of sanctification. With glorification, that is gone. We will not sin, we will not have the opportunity to sin. Forever we will be in the presence of God, giving him glory in a perfect state. And so we're gonna talk today about sanctification and how this isn't just a let go, let God like, oh, he's got it. I'm just gonna ride the wave and uh it's gonna turn out all right. No, the Bible talks about sanctification as a process. And so we have an active role in that process. So wanna look at uh two real passages um and we'll talk about kind of how that applies to the believer. But first is Philippians 2, 13 and 14. Uh, this comes right after uh Paul is talking about the uh descension of Jesus going from uh being God, taking on human flesh, um dying, and then being glorified because he died on a cross. And so he moves into all right, what's the application of this? And he says um that God uh wills and works for our good pleasure, but we should work out our salvation. And so it's it's important here to note that we are working out our salvation. You're not working for your salvation. We were talking before this podcast when we hopped on about the two tendencies towards either legalism or uh a more technical term is libertinism, or said otherwise, I can do whatever I want. Yeah. So um these are two extremes, but we want uh for y'all's benefit to hop on here today and really talk about like how do we reconcile these two? Where Philippians talks about uh work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who wills in you to will and to work for his good pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

And so And I think that like you have to start with the love of God, like it it begins with that. Like you have to know how much God loves you. We'll never know how much he loves us, but it starts with his love for us, and like in Romans um eight, when it just talks about how there is nothing that can separate you from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Nothing, absolutely nothing. If you've made that decision to follow Christ, you've surrendered your life to him, then there's nothing that can separate believers from God's love. We don't work for his love, it's just freely given to us. Um, his love is active, it's unconditional. And so we have that piece of it of God's love and accepting that, but then we also have the other piece of it of like, okay, well, once we make that profession in faith, we don't just stop. Like we have to continue to believe the gospel and we continue to grow and look more like Christ every day. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Yeah, no, for sure. I would say that honestly, that whole thing of like figuring out the balance of like, yes, God saves us and like we are justified. And then the whole sanctification thing, I kept thinking, oh, it's only me. Like I have to like work harder and like get all the do all this, like almost like a checkbox and stuff like that. Um, I know that for a while for me personally, that was like my biggest, I don't know, struggle would be the right word, but that was like my biggest like hoop to go through or try to understand is like, no, like I'm justified, I'm saved. It's not by my own doing, it's only by God. And like there is grace for when I fall short. And it's like, yes, we do want to like keep doing good works, but it's not the good works that save us. And it took me a long time to understand, like, no, all these good things, like if I'm just like doing them because oh, that I'm with the mindset of like this is how I'm saved, or this is like almost like I'm like I ended up like worshiping, doing these good works rather than like worshiping God and having like a relationship with him. And so it took me the longest time to realize like I'm not gonna become more godly on my own. I'm only gonna become more godly, more holy by spending time with him, by being in that relationship with him. And so it took me a while to figure that out. And I know that was something it's very much it's like one of those things, yeah, like you said, like uh two sides of the same coin.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

So, um, but yeah, and so yeah, it's it it really is it boils down to grace when we talk about our salvation is by grace through faith alone. It was it was the finished work of Jesus on the cross that like purchased our salvation, but that doesn't uh people describe it um as being like fire insurance, you know, like your get out of hell free card. It's it's not fire insurance. Um it is like an invitation to participate with God in this life and the next. And so that's why we wanted to describe those because it's not just like, oh, I made that decision, I'm all good. It's like, no, I've made a commitment to walk with God. And that's what we see when we look at that passage in Philippians is we work, but we don't work out of our own strength. We work out of what God gives us. Uh, Colossians says the same thing that we toil with his energy. That's Paul's prayer, that I would toil with your energy. And I think that that's a healthy prayer for us to pray is like, God, give me the energy to do what you call me to do. Yeah. Because the moment we try to do it on our own, we're just gonna fall short. And that's how it works. Yeah. And so I think it's important to understand from Philippians 2, God works and we work. The moment that we uh fall to one of these extremes is when we land in trouble. If we want to say, like, um, I work, I work for my salvation, I work for my sanctification, you fall into a trap that I'm gonna call graceless faith, where it's this self-justification that we see uh in Galatians, where these people are reverting back to the law. They're trying to be uh justified, if we can say it that way again. They're trying to be perfect according to I do this, I do this, I do this. And we can fall into this as Christians sometimes, no doubt. But this is a graceless faith. This is when we work. But on the other end of this, it's God works, God does everything, and I just have to sit back and relax. And this is what James talks about in James 2 when he talks about dead faith. He this is the people that are like, well, I don't need to do anything. And it's like, no. So we have to hold this tension of being somewhere in the middle where it's not God works, I relax, or I work and God just chills out. What we see from the biblical mandate is both are true, and we can take comfort in knowing, like, I can work hard for the gospel, but ultimately it's in God's hands, knowing that He is the one that gives me energy and He works inside of me. Yeah. Caitlin, I think you had something you wanted to chime in with.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah, Ben uh Stoking gave a really good message last week on kind of this topic of how we often want the benefits of salvation without the obedience to the Lord that comes with it. And so sometimes we can even like hype up that justification piece. And then they're like, wait, now I have to live a whole different life. Like because the Holy Spirit is dwelling inside of you, convicting you of things that you were doing, you were thinking, you were participating in. Now it's hard. Like at the beginning, it's really hard. There's a lot of growing pains as you grow with your walk with the Lord. And so I think sometimes we don't talk about that. And they're like, wait, I thought this was supposed to be easy. That's part of the let go and let God. Like, all right, we'll just let him do it. And I just kind of get to coast and sit back by and it's great. And it's like, no, actually, it it is difficult to die to your flesh, to pick up your own cross. Like, that's not, that is not easy. And I think it's a part that we maybe don't talk about a lot.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Yeah. No, and I think it's just it all comes down to our understanding is like, okay, what does like this like eternal life look like? And what does like what is God saving us from? You know? And I think I know for me that's what it took me a while to understand. It's like, okay, what am I saved for? It's like, we're saved, like what I mean, honestly, I'm just gonna share this like passage of scripture. It's Jesus and when he's praying for himself, his disciples, and then other Christians in John 17. But he says this in John 17, verse 3. It says, This is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and the one you have sent, Jesus Christ. And so it's like that is what eternal life is. Eternal life is not just, oh yes, we get to go to heaven and we get to just chill and be happy for the rest of our lives. It's like, no, we get to be in a a relationship with God, and we get to know him, and he knows us, and we get to know Jesus. And uh, the opposite of that is eternal separation from that. We don't get to be with God. And so, like, really right now on earth, Christians, this is the closest we'll ever get from being separated from God. But for unbelievers, this is the closest they're gonna get to being in relationship with God. And so it's like when you I think you understand that, it's like, okay, when we place our faith and trust in Jesus, we're making that commitment. Yes, we want to be in relationship with him. And so then that's where it's like, okay, well, how do you, I mean, think think about it like how do you grow in a friendship with someone else? You spend time with them, you hang out with them, you get to know them, and they get to know you. And so it's like that's the same thing with God is like, how are you spending time with them? How are you spending time in the word? How are you spending time in prayer and community with other believers that are gonna spur you on to grow in your faith, you know? And so, yeah, that's where we don't need to just sit back, but then also we need to understand too, like there's a grace for when we do fall short, because we're not gonna be perfect like for the rest of our lives once we place our faith and trust in Jesus. Like that's not gonna happen. And so, yeah, Nathan, you want to add into that?

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Yeah, I think it's when we talk about sanctification, a lot of people think it's linear. Uh, and I and I do think that's true. But when you look at graphs and sometimes like if you ever look at the stock market, you can go on your phone if you've got an iPhone or you can go online and you can look at uh one week uh and how it's done over a week. You can look at one month, how it's done over a month, one year, five year, ten year, all time. And if you get really close, you're gonna be like, oh my gosh, this stock market is super volatile. It's up and it's down, it's up and it's down. But if you zoom out of all time how the US stock market has done, it's trended up. It has always, it's taken its dips, 2008, uh, COVID, like it's had its moments. But if you zoom out over time, that the stock market has done better over time. And I think this is a healthy way to approach sanctification. Uh, John Piper likes to say that it's not about perfection, it's all about direction. Yeah. Where are you headed? And I think that if we can, if we can nail into our heads direction, direction, direction, then man, we're gonna fall. First James or first first John 1 9 uh says, if we sin, um we if we confess our sin to God, He is just and righteous to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And so you're gonna sin. As a believer, that's just undoubtedly the truth is like no matter how long you live, there's gonna be a moment in your life. There's gonna be moments every single day of your life where you just fall short of the glory of God. Jesus knew that when he went to the cross. Don't beat yourself up over it. Understand, repent, have a healthy view of, man, I want to love what God loves and I want to stay away from the things that God calls me to. But understand that Jesus knowingly died for the sin that you would commit before and after you came. And so I think if we can get this direction that uh Piper talks about into our heads, that's gonna help us have uh assurance of our salvation. We're going to know it's like, man, it's it's not this perfection, but it is all about this direction. And so keep on going with that direction. Um, and I'll I'll I'll bet that you will have a much greater peace. So the second passage that we were gonna look at is 2 Peter 1. Uh, this is one of my favorite passages, in fact. And uh it's really cool because uh Peter the apostle, uh one of Jesus' closest disciples, um, at the very end of this section, he says in verse 13, I think it right, as long as I am in this body to stir you up by way of reminder, since I know that the putting off of the body will soon uh come as our Jesus as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. And I will make every effort uh so that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things. And so Jesus or Peter was a pretty important guy in the life of the early church and Jesus' life. And so, what are these things that he wants people to be able to recall at any time? Well, in verse three, he says, His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness. And this is God. God has given us, uh God has used his divine power to give us all things pertaining to life and godliness. That's sanctification right there. He is providing everything for us that we need. And then if you look in verse 10, it says, Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities, you will never fall. And so it's really an echoing of that uh Philippians 2, where it's saying, hey, God has provided everything you need. Um, and then he has called you to confirm that by walking out uh these certain qualities. And he he goes through a big list of them uh that we're not necessarily gonna dive into here, but I think it's important to look at that he says, you will never fall. If we have put these practices of 2 Peter 1, these are the things that are gonna keep us from sin, that are gonna keep us on the right direction uh in our sanctification. Now, like we just talked about, first John is very clear. Anyone who says that he's without sin is a liar, but if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us. And so I would, this is something that I memorized this passage a long time ago. Um, and I would just remind myself the qualities that it talks about uh here, because the this is what uh God in his word is saying. Hey, if you're gonna practice these things, this is gonna keep you on the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

And like I, whenever I sit down with a girl and you hear them say, like, I'm just not hearing from the Lord, or like I just don't know what I'm supposed to do, or I feel like I'm not growing, I'm not getting any better. And it's like the first question I asked, like, okay, so like what's your time with the Lord look like? Yeah, it hasn't been good recently, or like I just don't know how to do that. You know, like we have been equipped and prepared, like we have the word of God, the living, active word of God. So, like if we are not in it, that step one, like how in the world do we expect to find that direction and have that long obedience in the same direction if we don't even know the word of God? Um, and otherwise, other things will just fill your mind and the world will fill your mind. And so the fact that we even have the word, and not only that, but I mean the resources we have nowadays, it's crazy. The podcasts, the books. I mean, you can always be growing and learning more about the Lord with all the supplemental things as well.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah, and I'll give an example of this in my own walk in my own life. Uh, when I came to the Lord at 19, uh, there was a lot of zeal on the front end where I was like, yes, I'm gonna know my Bible. I'm gonna read these books, I'm gonna get it, I'm gonna walk out my faith. And I noticed this as a trend uh with a lot of young believers, but one, two, three years in, there really is this stagnant period where uh that zeal kind of tempers off. And uh C.S. Lewis talks about this um in his book, Mere Christianity, but the difference. Between when you want to do something and when you need to be disciplined to do something. And so if I'm married, if I only told my wife I love her when I felt like it, she would probably feel a lot less loved than she actually is. And this is Lewis's example, but I wholeheartedly agree with it. But sometimes I tell my wife I love her when I'm not just like beaming with joy and having the best day ever. A, because I do love her, and B, because she needs to hear that for her own sake. I do love her, and that's going to strengthen our relationship. And so the same thing is true in my life. There have been seasons, especially early on, where I was super hot and then I would kind of taper off and I would not be in the Word for a couple of weeks on end. Um I would really slack on my scripture memorization. And as a result, my actions represented that. I was uh engaged in stuff I shouldn't be. I was um the media I was consuming, the music I was listening to, it just wasn't reflective of what God had saved me to. And so as I uh got in the habit of being in the Word daily and really just seeking God's presence in every aspect of my life, I it was a lot more linear uh than when I was just like hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, cold.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

I think it's a good word for our listeners because it can be like, well, yeah, it's easy for you all to say this. Like you, you all are in seminary, like, okay. But it's like we all started somewhere. And I'm not where I am today, where I was five years ago. Thank the Lord, genuinely, for that. But it is those small obedience just in that same direction. And so it it doesn't, it doesn't look the same, and it can be hard. And so it's not like a flip of the switch, maybe it's gonna be completely different tomorrow, but it's like it's something you have to actively be doing every day. It's a walk with the Lord every single day.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yeah, no, exactly. I would have to agree with that too. I know for a while for me, I like I shared a little bit about it at the beginning, but um I know some of my like were I fell short in this or like in trying to understand was like, okay, I need to do all the good works. And so I'd be like, oh, I'm always gonna be serving, I'm always gonna be helping other people out, uh, going on these trips, leading in this, like on different worship teams or leading different small groups and stuff like that. And it was good, but it was like I was almost doing it from my own strength rather than from the Lord. And it was until I realized, like, honestly, for me, failing at that is when I realized, like, oh, this is why we need to be spending time in the word. It's it is living, breathing, and acting. Like it's the word of God, and like that's how we're gonna grow closer to God by spending uh time in it, you know. That's how we're gonna get to know the character of God if we read our Bibles, you know, it's as simple as that. It's like um, it's not just gonna happen, you know, overnight. And so it's gonna be happening in that like long obedience, you know, just step by step, doing those little steps of obedience daily and just keep you know, and that's what I think what you said about like it's not a linear thing, there are like ups and downs through it, but as long as you're going, it's long obedience in the same direction, you know, and just staying on track with that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Yeah, and when we talk about sanctification, just every single person has a next best step. Like there's there's probably lots of steps, but there's a best immediate next step. And so if you're listening and you're like, you know what, you talked about justification. I don't really even know what that is. Like maybe your first step is getting in the word, asking, reaching out to one of us, um, getting talk about what it looks like to actually have a relationship with the Lord. Um, maybe your next step is you've you've been saved, you've had that experience, you've had that moment, you know who the Lord is, but you've just never walked that out through obedience and baptism. Uh maybe you know that you've you've already done those things, but you've crossed them off and now you're just like, what do I do? I haven't grown, I'm just stagnant. And maybe that's gonna look like daily getting into the word, um, growing in prayer, joining a small group. Whenever you do go through those hard times, your small group are the ones that push you and drive you to, hey, stick it out. Let's keep doing this. I've noticed you're struggling. Um, maybe it's meditating on scripture or confession, uh, whatever that is, everyone has an immediate next step.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Yeah, the way that I have really been encouraged by this, uh I was studying Hebrews a few months ago, and Hebrews chapters three and four is quoting the Old Testament. Um, but it is David uh writing, and he says, do not harden your hearts. And it's oh after that it says, the Holy Spirit says, do not harden your hearts. And I think that if you've been walking with Christ for enough time, uh you you look at other believers who might have who might be newer in their journey and they're getting saved, getting baptized, getting plugged into small groups, they're starting to memorize scripture, uh, read the word, and they're and you're like, well, yeah, I've been doing that for five, 10, 15 years now. Like, surely uh there's there's gotta be something, but I don't know what my next step is. Uh really just go to the Holy Spirit and be like, what is my next step? Because uh to whom much is given, much is required. And I promise you, every single person listening or not listening to this podcast has a next step. Uh, it could be using what God has given you, stewarding that for the growth of the kingdom. Um, there's so many things that we could use as a next step, but really read, pray, uh, in get in the word, that's gonna be an immediate uh teller. Be like, oh, this is what God says I need to do. I'm not doing that, or this is what God says I should be refraining from. That's something that's in my life. So that's gonna be an immediate next step. Something that's been helpful for me is reading the biographies of Christians over the last 2,000 years. Yeah. Uh one that I read last summer was uh Confessions by St. Augustine. Great book. It's really funny because he writes the book uh for the purpose of basically devaluing his opinion among people. They're starting to like view him as a celebrity. He's like, I'm just a dude. Here, look at here's my testimony. You're gonna look at me as a human from now on. But it's funny because he uh he'll criticize himself. He's like, when I was a little boy, I used to want to go outside and play sports instead of uh sitting down and do my homework. I'm the worst of sinners. And it's like, okay, all right, there's there's there might be a bit of exaggeration, but that's how he felt. Like he was the Lord just impressed on him, like, hey, I've I've given you so much to steward. And he felt bad for not stewarding it uh in his younger years. But reading people like that, uh, reading prayers of people who have just been so close to God has helped me in my journey be like, wow, look at how close they are. And like, Lord, what would it take for me to just continue to grow and get to a point where I am uh being as best fit for you in your service?

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Yeah. And if you want some resources that you maybe can read about, uh we do have a few spiritual disciplines for the Christian life by Donald Whitney. Great book. Uh Radical by David Platt. Why do I do what I don't want to do by Jonathan Pakluta? The cost of discipleship by Bonhoeff. Uh, I also like reading Elizabeth Elliott because she's the same one of that type of person of just like, wow, her faith is so strong. Like you can learn so much from people who have gone before us and just lived out their faith. But as for today's podcast, that is a wrap. So we will see you all next time. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Bye. Peace out.